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	<title>Comments on: Underwater Subprime Mortgages &#8211; Is the Sky Really Falling?</title>
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	<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/</link>
	<description>Investing and Personal Finance</description>
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		<title>By: Carnival of Personal Finance #150</title>
		<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/comment-page-1/#comment-5522</link>
		<dc:creator>Carnival of Personal Finance #150</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:01:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/#comment-5522</guid>
		<description>[...] Pillars asks if the sky is falling with underwater subprime mortgage. I agree with his point in the article, but I there&#8217;s significant research that says one [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Pillars asks if the sky is falling with underwater subprime mortgage. I agree with his point in the article, but I there&#8217;s significant research that says one [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Four Pillars</title>
		<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/comment-page-1/#comment-5520</link>
		<dc:creator>Four Pillars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/#comment-5520</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the info Mark.

Good point about the long term fixed mortgages available in the US - I don&#039;t know why they aren&#039;t available anywhere else - I suspect there is more competition in the US banking industry?

Mike</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the info Mark.</p>
<p>Good point about the long term fixed mortgages available in the US &#8211; I don&#8217;t know why they aren&#8217;t available anywhere else &#8211; I suspect there is more competition in the US banking industry?</p>
<p>Mike</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/comment-page-1/#comment-5510</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 04:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/#comment-5510</guid>
		<description>Original purchase money (not refinanced, or HELOC) mortgages on principal resididences are only non-recourse in a very small number of states (ie: California) in the US.  Since most people in trouble refinanced at least once or twice in the past few years, this describes virtually nobody who is &#039;upside down&#039;.  I don&#039;t know why many commentators continually drag this fact out into discourse, because, practically speaking, the non-recourse nature of a small number of loans in the US is meaningless.

The major difference between the US, and Canadian/UK markets is the availability of long-term financing without the risk of margin calls and rate resets.  Most loans written in Canada have a margin call provision every 5 years, along with a rate reset.  In America, you can get a true 30-year loan quite inexpensively, which allows people to take on commensurately more risk and elevates pricing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Original purchase money (not refinanced, or HELOC) mortgages on principal resididences are only non-recourse in a very small number of states (ie: California) in the US.  Since most people in trouble refinanced at least once or twice in the past few years, this describes virtually nobody who is &#8216;upside down&#8217;.  I don&#8217;t know why many commentators continually drag this fact out into discourse, because, practically speaking, the non-recourse nature of a small number of loans in the US is meaningless.</p>
<p>The major difference between the US, and Canadian/UK markets is the availability of long-term financing without the risk of margin calls and rate resets.  Most loans written in Canada have a margin call provision every 5 years, along with a rate reset.  In America, you can get a true 30-year loan quite inexpensively, which allows people to take on commensurately more risk and elevates pricing.</p>
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		<title>By: Hustle Strategy</title>
		<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/comment-page-1/#comment-5444</link>
		<dc:creator>Hustle Strategy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/#comment-5444</guid>
		<description>I guess I am looking at this a bit differently but, from my understanding...  

People got into loans that they could not afford, where the interest would increase over time.  Based on this increased interest people are in a sub prime crisis.  Because of this they are looking to refinance to get better terms, but they cannot refinance  because the value of the homes have decreased.  

Therefore people have to jump.  They have few other options.  Paying rent for some is more difficult then others.  Some have jumped in over their heads...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I am looking at this a bit differently but, from my understanding&#8230;  </p>
<p>People got into loans that they could not afford, where the interest would increase over time.  Based on this increased interest people are in a sub prime crisis.  Because of this they are looking to refinance to get better terms, but they cannot refinance  because the value of the homes have decreased.  </p>
<p>Therefore people have to jump.  They have few other options.  Paying rent for some is more difficult then others.  Some have jumped in over their heads&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Four Pillars</title>
		<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/comment-page-1/#comment-5412</link>
		<dc:creator>Four Pillars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/#comment-5412</guid>
		<description>Steward - the long term real estate return is inflation plus a bit so you are probably right (in the long term).

Gates - the more people that read it - the better!

GIV - I really hope that home owners don&#039;t panic.

Kyle - that&#039;s the right attitude.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steward &#8211; the long term real estate return is inflation plus a bit so you are probably right (in the long term).</p>
<p>Gates &#8211; the more people that read it &#8211; the better!</p>
<p>GIV &#8211; I really hope that home owners don&#8217;t panic.</p>
<p>Kyle &#8211; that&#8217;s the right attitude.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/comment-page-1/#comment-5411</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/#comment-5411</guid>
		<description>For all I know I&#039;m underwater.  I have no idea since I haven&#039;t checked to see what my condo is worth in the last year.  It doesn&#039;t particularly bother me since I&#039;m not selling anytime soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For all I know I&#8217;m underwater.  I have no idea since I haven&#8217;t checked to see what my condo is worth in the last year.  It doesn&#8217;t particularly bother me since I&#8217;m not selling anytime soon.</p>
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		<title>By: growthinvalue</title>
		<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/comment-page-1/#comment-5410</link>
		<dc:creator>growthinvalue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/#comment-5410</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;Equating the number of home owners who are upside down on the their mortgage with home abandonment or a major financial crisis is faulty logic.&lt;/i&gt;

I get what you&#039;re saying, but I&#039;m not sure it&#039;s quite correct, as it&#039;s written here. I may not be logical, but that doesn&#039;t mean people won&#039;t do it. So the number of &quot;upside-down&quot; homeowners seems as decent a proxy for the housing market&#039;s health as some of the others that get bandied about.

The fact is, a lot of people new to the real estate game will panic and sell at a loss once they&#039;re upside down, regardless of the fact that it&#039;s a stupid thing to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Equating the number of home owners who are upside down on the their mortgage with home abandonment or a major financial crisis is faulty logic.</i></p>
<p>I get what you&#8217;re saying, but I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s quite correct, as it&#8217;s written here. I may not be logical, but that doesn&#8217;t mean people won&#8217;t do it. So the number of &#8220;upside-down&#8221; homeowners seems as decent a proxy for the housing market&#8217;s health as some of the others that get bandied about.</p>
<p>The fact is, a lot of people new to the real estate game will panic and sell at a loss once they&#8217;re upside down, regardless of the fact that it&#8217;s a stupid thing to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Gates VP</title>
		<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/comment-page-1/#comment-5409</link>
		<dc:creator>Gates VP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/#comment-5409</guid>
		<description>Hey &lt;b&gt;FP&lt;/b&gt;;

Nothing like a little tough love. I&#039;m with you completely on this one.

Complaining about being underwater on your mortgage is just outright foolishness and demonstrates a severe lack of &quot;finances 101&quot;. I hope that everyone there reads your blog post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey <b>FP</b>;</p>
<p>Nothing like a little tough love. I&#8217;m with you completely on this one.</p>
<p>Complaining about being underwater on your mortgage is just outright foolishness and demonstrates a severe lack of &#8220;finances 101&#8243;. I hope that everyone there reads your blog post.</p>
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		<title>By: Steward</title>
		<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/comment-page-1/#comment-5407</link>
		<dc:creator>Steward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/#comment-5407</guid>
		<description>Great article.  I agree with what has already been said about viewing the problem of under water mortgages differently if we are talking about a home investor or a home owner.  Home owners should stick it out and investors should evaluate their position from an investment standpoint.

However, contra Mr. Cheap, I am of the opinion that real estate can only go up, up, up, up in the long term if two conditions are present: (1) there is only a certain amount of land, and (2) more people want to live on that land than did a few years ago.  Since I don&#039;t see these two conditions changing any time in my lifetime, or that of my grandchildren, or even that of my grandchildren&#039;s grandchildren then I think real estate will always be a good long term investment (unless the government gets all imminent domain on your heiny, then I recommend gun ownership).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article.  I agree with what has already been said about viewing the problem of under water mortgages differently if we are talking about a home investor or a home owner.  Home owners should stick it out and investors should evaluate their position from an investment standpoint.</p>
<p>However, contra Mr. Cheap, I am of the opinion that real estate can only go up, up, up, up in the long term if two conditions are present: (1) there is only a certain amount of land, and (2) more people want to live on that land than did a few years ago.  Since I don&#8217;t see these two conditions changing any time in my lifetime, or that of my grandchildren, or even that of my grandchildren&#8217;s grandchildren then I think real estate will always be a good long term investment (unless the government gets all imminent domain on your heiny, then I recommend gun ownership).</p>
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		<title>By: Four Pillars</title>
		<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/comment-page-1/#comment-5404</link>
		<dc:creator>Four Pillars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/04/22/underwater-subprime-mortgages-is-the-sky-really-falling/#comment-5404</guid>
		<description>Guinness - I&#039;m always amazed at bloggers who can somehow calculate that their house went up 0.4% last month when in my opinion, even a professional estimator probably couldn&#039;t estimate a house within 5%!

DFR - I&#039;m glad we agree.  I think you should do the post anyways.  I&#039;m sure you will have a different take/slant on it.

Cheap - good point.  It&#039;s odd that you can just walk away from a mortgage in the US.  I wonder why they would allow that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guinness &#8211; I&#8217;m always amazed at bloggers who can somehow calculate that their house went up 0.4% last month when in my opinion, even a professional estimator probably couldn&#8217;t estimate a house within 5%!</p>
<p>DFR &#8211; I&#8217;m glad we agree.  I think you should do the post anyways.  I&#8217;m sure you will have a different take/slant on it.</p>
<p>Cheap &#8211; good point.  It&#8217;s odd that you can just walk away from a mortgage in the US.  I wonder why they would allow that?</p>
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