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	<title>Comments on: Real Estate Arbitrage</title>
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	<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/</link>
	<description>Investing and Personal Finance</description>
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		<title>By: Telly</title>
		<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/comment-page-1/#comment-6847</link>
		<dc:creator>Telly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 03:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/#comment-6847</guid>
		<description>I know...that&#039;s what I was telling you!

Actually, one of the rooms actually goes for $280 believe it or not!  Oh, and we pay the utilities too!

Before home owners caught on to how much money student rentals were making we used to be able to collect $350 / room with nothing included.  Now they&#039;ve all moved out and virtually all housing near the U is student housing now.  Thanks to a great deal and cheap RE, we&#039;re still cash flow positive on both properties, though not anywhere close to the $1000 net/mth per house we were making a couple years back.

Markets can change quickly.  Now kids won&#039;t sleep in the basement. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know&#8230;that&#8217;s what I was telling you!</p>
<p>Actually, one of the rooms actually goes for $280 believe it or not!  Oh, and we pay the utilities too!</p>
<p>Before home owners caught on to how much money student rentals were making we used to be able to collect $350 / room with nothing included.  Now they&#8217;ve all moved out and virtually all housing near the U is student housing now.  Thanks to a great deal and cheap RE, we&#8217;re still cash flow positive on both properties, though not anywhere close to the $1000 net/mth per house we were making a couple years back.</p>
<p>Markets can change quickly.  Now kids won&#8217;t sleep in the basement. <img src='http://www.four-pillars.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Cheap</title>
		<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/comment-page-1/#comment-6844</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Cheap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/#comment-6844</guid>
		<description>telly:  Wow, $320 for all that.  I should have done my PhD in Windsor! ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>telly:  Wow, $320 for all that.  I should have done my PhD in Windsor! <img src='http://www.four-pillars.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: telly</title>
		<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/comment-page-1/#comment-6843</link>
		<dc:creator>telly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/#comment-6843</guid>
		<description>Good point Cheap, but unfortunately, we&#039;re already the ones footing the bill for wireless internet, satellite dish and VOIP.

It&#039;s a renters (and buyers!) market in Windsor these days. :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point Cheap, but unfortunately, we&#8217;re already the ones footing the bill for wireless internet, satellite dish and VOIP.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a renters (and buyers!) market in Windsor these days. <img src='http://www.four-pillars.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Cheap</title>
		<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/comment-page-1/#comment-6841</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Cheap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/#comment-6841</guid>
		<description>telly:  yeah, that&#039;d be a bit too much like work for my tastes ;-).  I definitely would be up front with the landlord (at least that I would be getting roommates, I probably wouldn&#039;t concern then with the details of how much rent I was planning to charge).

If one of the students had been more entrepreneurial, he may have found the group was willing to pay more (e.g. they&#039;re clearly willing to pay $1600/5 not to be personally responsible, how much more would they be willing to pay for wireless internet, a cleaning service every two weeks, cable tv, etc).  One student might have been able to put together a &quot;package deal&quot; that would have let him take care of the details and get a bit of a rent discount in exchange.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>telly:  yeah, that&#8217;d be a bit too much like work for my tastes <img src='http://www.four-pillars.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> .  I definitely would be up front with the landlord (at least that I would be getting roommates, I probably wouldn&#8217;t concern then with the details of how much rent I was planning to charge).</p>
<p>If one of the students had been more entrepreneurial, he may have found the group was willing to pay more (e.g. they&#8217;re clearly willing to pay $1600/5 not to be personally responsible, how much more would they be willing to pay for wireless internet, a cleaning service every two weeks, cable tv, etc).  One student might have been able to put together a &#8220;package deal&#8221; that would have let him take care of the details and get a bit of a rent discount in exchange.</p>
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		<title>By: telly</title>
		<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/comment-page-1/#comment-6835</link>
		<dc:creator>telly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 12:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/#comment-6835</guid>
		<description>Yikes!  One of these days listening to me is going to get you into trouble.  Although not this time. ;)

Actually, your (personal) plan isn&#039;t a bad one and not illegal if you&#039;re upfront about it with the landlord although I&#039;m not sure how much of a discount it would provide.

We recently rented out our 5 bedroom house to a group of students.  The rent charged was either $1600 split between the 5 of them, or $1500 if we received one cheque.  They chose to give us 5 cheques and pay $1600.  Why?  Because no one wanted to be responsible for collecting rent from the others.  As a landlord, I can&#039;t say I blame them. :)

One thing you might want to talk to your landlord about is if they would be interested in cutting you a deal if you agreed to take care of property maintenance (i.e. mowing the lawn, shovelling the snow).  If you&#039;re cheaper than a maintenance service, they may likely be interested in striking a deal and could result in a discount of ~$25-50 / mth.  We&#039;ve done this in the past.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yikes!  One of these days listening to me is going to get you into trouble.  Although not this time. <img src='http://www.four-pillars.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Actually, your (personal) plan isn&#8217;t a bad one and not illegal if you&#8217;re upfront about it with the landlord although I&#8217;m not sure how much of a discount it would provide.</p>
<p>We recently rented out our 5 bedroom house to a group of students.  The rent charged was either $1600 split between the 5 of them, or $1500 if we received one cheque.  They chose to give us 5 cheques and pay $1600.  Why?  Because no one wanted to be responsible for collecting rent from the others.  As a landlord, I can&#8217;t say I blame them. <img src='http://www.four-pillars.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>One thing you might want to talk to your landlord about is if they would be interested in cutting you a deal if you agreed to take care of property maintenance (i.e. mowing the lawn, shovelling the snow).  If you&#8217;re cheaper than a maintenance service, they may likely be interested in striking a deal and could result in a discount of ~$25-50 / mth.  We&#8217;ve done this in the past.</p>
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		<title>By: Linking Sunday Weight Loss Success Edition &#124; Personal Finance Blog by Money Ning</title>
		<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/comment-page-1/#comment-6830</link>
		<dc:creator>Linking Sunday Weight Loss Success Edition &#124; Personal Finance Blog by Money Ning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/#comment-6830</guid>
		<description>[...] Pillars talks about real estate arbitrage in this post.  I don&#8217;t think anyone likes to do this but money is [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Pillars talks about real estate arbitrage in this post.  I don&#8217;t think anyone likes to do this but money is [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Four Pillars</title>
		<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/comment-page-1/#comment-6812</link>
		<dc:creator>Four Pillars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 16:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/#comment-6812</guid>
		<description>Comments are sent to spam if they contain 2 or more links.  I changed it to 3 or more links - hopefully that helps.

I wouldn&#039;t condone doing anything illegal, but if you were to sublet the apartment for a few extra dollars, I think the odds of getting caught are pretty close to zero.  Kind of like speeding by a couple of kilometres per hour...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comments are sent to spam if they contain 2 or more links.  I changed it to 3 or more links &#8211; hopefully that helps.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t condone doing anything illegal, but if you were to sublet the apartment for a few extra dollars, I think the odds of getting caught are pretty close to zero.  Kind of like speeding by a couple of kilometres per hour&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Cheap</title>
		<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/comment-page-1/#comment-6811</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Cheap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/#comment-6811</guid>
		<description>Potato:  thanks for the link!  Sorry about the comments (the system threw one of my comments in our spam bin too!).  Links should USUALLY be ok in comments...

You&#039;re right 3a) seems to forbid one part of what I&#039;m suggesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Potato:  thanks for the link!  Sorry about the comments (the system threw one of my comments in our spam bin too!).  Links should USUALLY be ok in comments&#8230;</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right 3a) seems to forbid one part of what I&#8217;m suggesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Potato</title>
		<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/comment-page-1/#comment-6810</link>
		<dc:creator>Potato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/#comment-6810</guid>
		<description>It might be worth subletting just to have the option to come back later, as long as she didn&#039;t make any money on it. Including links seems to throw my comments out (or possibly in the moderation queue -- Mike might come on later and this page will be nothing but comments from me!)

Anyway, if you go to ontariotenants dot ca
then on the left is a link for residential tenancies act, then on there look for &quot;illegal additional charges&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It might be worth subletting just to have the option to come back later, as long as she didn&#8217;t make any money on it. Including links seems to throw my comments out (or possibly in the moderation queue &#8212; Mike might come on later and this page will be nothing but comments from me!)</p>
<p>Anyway, if you go to ontariotenants dot ca<br />
then on the left is a link for residential tenancies act, then on there look for &#8220;illegal additional charges&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: bethh</title>
		<link>http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/comment-page-1/#comment-6809</link>
		<dc:creator>bethh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 14:56:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.four-pillars.ca/2008/07/04/real-estate-arbitrage/#comment-6809</guid>
		<description>$100/month doesn&#039;t seem worth the potential risk and hassle for your friend to sublet her place, unless she is sure she&#039;s coming back soon. 

The other idea (finding a house and getting roommates, and charging them more rent) is much more doable. You&#039;d have to be careful you didn&#039;t wind up losing money on the deal if you had to cover an empty room for any amount of time! 

I know someone in the SF area who has been in his apt for 10 years - it&#039;s well below market rate now, but he charges himself the least and charges new roommates much closer to the market rate. It seems fair to me that he should benefit from his 10 years&#039; tenancy more than the newcomer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>$100/month doesn&#8217;t seem worth the potential risk and hassle for your friend to sublet her place, unless she is sure she&#8217;s coming back soon. </p>
<p>The other idea (finding a house and getting roommates, and charging them more rent) is much more doable. You&#8217;d have to be careful you didn&#8217;t wind up losing money on the deal if you had to cover an empty room for any amount of time! </p>
<p>I know someone in the SF area who has been in his apt for 10 years &#8211; it&#8217;s well below market rate now, but he charges himself the least and charges new roommates much closer to the market rate. It seems fair to me that he should benefit from his 10 years&#8217; tenancy more than the newcomer.</p>
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